Here are the questions for weeks 1 - 3. Please use the comments section to post your answers. Do not make a new blog:
1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to site from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to site from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Any ideas flowing yet?
ReplyDeleteComing Mike! Sorry for the late one! :)
DeleteQuestions:
ReplyDelete1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga
Voluspa.
Voluspa or this text derives off as a Mythological Poem or Song. It is mythological as it is relating to the gods. "Hear my words / you holy gods" (L.1) In stating the gods, it is clear that the Volva is talking with the gods; consequently considering this an Oral text. This is reinforced by the seeress stating; "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (L.3)
Uncertainty a story is upright, then it drive still be a good story to tell. Therefore as far as it is worth expressive, it will have place in the modern world.
Nevertheless, Paul (2012) declares that myth is necessary to humans to clarify what we don't know, such as our origin and making stories, and until we are undeniably sure why we're here then myth will always have a place.
Similarly, editions of myth as well provide medium for entertaining. For example, many of Amon Amarth's musical works, like; 'Twilight of the Thundergod' that tells the tale of Thor rising to meet Jormungandr in battle and dying.
"Mighty Thor grips the snake
firmly by its tongue
lifts his hammer high to strike
soon his work is done
Vingtor sends the giant snake
bleeding to the depth
Twilight of the Thundergod
Ragnarok awaits."
Moreover, there is another album from the same band which is, 'Surtur Rising', is a thought album that tells several stories that are existing in the Voluspa, such as; The Aesir-Vanir war; "I ween the first war / in the world was this." (S.21)
The rising of Surtur; "Comes Surt from the South / with the singer-of-twigs, / The war god's sword like a sun doth shine;" (S.51) These are present in Amon Amarth's discography with the names "War of the gods" and "Destroyer of the Universe" Respectively.
Volsunga Saga.
The Volsunga is a fornaldarsaga, or Legendary saga. Fornaldarsagas are "Medieval Icelandic sagas as opposed to the more realistic genre." (Nationalencyklopedin (N.D))
It is perhaps not deliberated accurate due to the presence of Odin throughout the saga. An example of this is; "there came to him an old man with a long beard," as Odin is frequently portrayed as a drifting old man with a beard.
Also, the presence of a dragon would likely make it less realistic.
The Volsunga has a place in the modern world, because it has covered the method for excessive literally works such as "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings." also Richard Wagners "Der Ring des Nibelungen."
As I stated earlier, if the story is good, then it will still be a good story to tell.
On the other hand, the Castle Neuschwanstein was constructed created off Richward Wagners operas. "In the Lower hall of the castle there are paintings and illustrations of the Sigurd Saga from the old Norse saga "Edda."" ("Neuschwanstein" N.D)
References;
Paul. (2012, May 2). Myth and the Modern World.
Retrieved from http://twooldliberals.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/myth-and-the-modern-world/
Amon Amarth. (2008). Twilight of the Thunder God. Twilight of the Thunder god. Retrieved from http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/amonamarth/twilightofthethundergod.html#1
Amon Amarth (2011). Surtur Rising. Retrieved From http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/amonamarth/surturrising.html#1
Nationalencyklopedin. (n.d.) Fornaldarsaga.
Retrieved from http://www.ne.se/fornaldarsagor?i_h_word=Fornaldarsaga
Nueschwanstein. (n.d.) Idea and history. Sagas: Sigurd.
Retrieved from http://www.neuschwanstein.de/englisch/idea/sagas/sigurd.htm
Poetic Edda: Voluspa. (L. M. Hollander, translation.) Austin: University of Texas Press.
Excellent answer, Fakaanaua, very thorough and well referenced. I find it interesting that metal bands, heavy metal from Norther Europe, like to use these myths for their songs. I guess thoese stories are grandiose enough for heavy metal!
DeleteThanks Mike and I found it interesting applied to my culture that we do have some myths that we put it in a songs so that every generation can sing and dance it out and I can see how splendid of it and how old people put it in a form of songs in order to maintain it from being loss.
Delete1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
ReplyDeleteAll five of these stories could roughly be cataloged as heroic, epic myths. They feature heroes who behave as heroes should, with courage, bravery, and honor. These stories show through example how people should face the challenges in the world around them.
Volsunga Saga
No fear he had thereof, but caught the she-wolf's tongue betwixt his teeth, and so hard she started back thereat, and pulled herself away so mightily, setting her feet against the stocks, that all was riven asunder; but he ever held so fast that the tongue came away by the roots, and thereof she had her bane. (Ch. V)
Beowulf
Nearer he strode then, the stout-hearted warrior.
Snatched as he slumbered, seizing with hand-grip. (XII: 36, 37)
In both of these texts, the warrior is expected to be brave and attack the monster with whatever is at hand rather than retreat. In The Hobbit as well, heroes were expected to be brave, such as Bard, who “shot with a great yew bow, till all his arrows but one were spent. The flames were near him. His companions were leaving him. He bent his bow for the last time.” (Ch.12)
In all of these stories, there is a theme of heroism, especially as a responsibility to save family or friends.
Candice, welcome back! Look up these words: Saga, myth, epic, legend. Now tell me what the differences and similarities are, as relating to the course texts.
DeleteA saga is a Norse story about a family.
DeleteA myth is a story based in legend.
An epic is a long poetic story about a hero.
A legend is a story about the past that may or may not be true.
Some of these words apply to some of the stories. Volsunga is more of a saga, because it is about a family. Voluspa is both a myth and an epic. Beowulf is a myth and an epic. The Hobbit is a legend, although there are parts that are epic because Tolkein likes to introduce songs or poetry. LOTR is in the form of a saga, as so much of it focuses around Aragorn and his lineage, but it is also a legend.
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DeleteBeowulf by J. Lesslie Hall. (n.d.). Retrieved from www.gutenberg.org/files/16328/16328-h/16328-h.htm
DeleteWhat I found interesting about all five of these stories is that not only did they all fall under the same mythology genre but all had one common theme based around all poems which can be related to heroic.
DeleteVoluspa: The poem begins with the Volva requesting silence from the sons of Heimdall (human beings) asking Odin whether he wants her to recite ancient lore. She continues with references to a creation myth mentions the world was empty until the sons of Burr lifted the earth out of the sea. “Nothing was there when time began, neither sands nor seas nor cooling waves”.
Beowulf: Beowulf is a poem set in Scandinavia. Beowulf is a hero of the Greats who comes to the aid of Hygelac who is the king of the Danes which has been under attack by a monster known as Grendel. Beowulf attacks him then Grendels mother attacks him also in the hall but is defeated. After being being victorious in the battle he returns back to his kingdom where he becomes king. After being in battle with the dragon whom he loses to and is wounded in the fight he dies. This is however way after his battles with Grendel (Nearly after 50 years) “until one began to dominate the dark, a dragon on the prowl from the steep vaults of a stone-roofed barrow where he guarded a hoard”
Each poem is different, however in between these poems the themes of mythology still remain the same. Heroic, gods, traditions, cultural traditions and heroes who become legends (Beowulf).
Hi Naua,
ReplyDeleteI quite interested on what you have mentioned above, “Uncertainty a story is upright, then it derive still be a good story to tell, it will have place in the modern world. "There are lots of stories that are still introducing at present and even become movies such as the story of Jesus Christ. It is a great story which was written so long, long ago. I think it could be a good story to tell and easy to understand by a group of people varying from young to old ages.
what is 'it' in the last sentence? a myth may be said to give meaning to the world. A myth is not a myth if it is believed. For example, the Garden of Eden may be seen as a myth to some, but the literal truth to others. what does it mean for a story to be 'upright'?
DeleteQuestions:
ReplyDelete1) What genres do the following texts belong to?
2) What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
Voluspa
The genre of Volva seems to be a Mythical song that has written for a purpose and for a group of people which they can understand and relate to the author’s past and history as referred to Gods from the poem, “ Hear my words/ you holy Gods, “ By Odin’s will I’ll speak the ancient lore”. This phrase, “Hear my words” clarifies that it was a spoken word by the author which makes it more a Mythical Song.
Moreover, Paul (2012) suggests that myth is desirable to humans to explain what we do not know such as our origin and creation stories, and by the time we fully understand why we are here at present, then myth will always have a place in the modern world
With referenced to the song of Volva, us as human being would love to know about our origins and the world creation. I think this song of Volva identifies some religious belief, I guess, by the words used such as God, Holy God and heavens. These words make me think merely of the world creation according to the bible. In verses 3, from the song of Volva, it clarifies the connection between the world and God’s first creation of the world. As shows below in figure 1.1
“Nothing was there when time began neither sands nor seas or cooling waves, Earth was not yet, nor the high heavens, but a gaping emptiness nowhere green. (Figure 1.1)
The above saying is true in relation to the bible that on the very first day of His creation, the world was empty and everything has not named yet even the stars, moon and the sun created on the third days of His creation and the Lord named them and put them in the sky to separate the night from daylight. Moreover, His last creation of the world was the human being (Eve and Adam) and God gave them breath and put them in the garden of Paradise with rules to be followed. They disobeyed the rules and God gave each of them some words of punishment and here we are identifying as human being and we struggle with those punishments followed by the first parents (Eve and Adam).
So check the link below, it might give you information about the world creation in the bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version...
I think this poem is important to me as it is strengthening my belief as a Christian and to know that God has before ruled and currently ruling the world that we are living in. In verses 6, line1 says “Then the holy Gods met to give judgement” which I believe it is true.
Another value that brings to mind is identity as how an individual person would define themselves of who they are at present as well as to explore their place of origins. I personally would love to know more about my identity in the past and how it relates to my culture at present which I think it would expand my knowledge about where I belong.
References:
Paul (2012), May 2). Myth and the Modern World
Retrieved from http://twooldliberals.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/myth-and-the-modern-world/
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version...
Our own religious befiefs are often triggered by these ancient tales, which are the religions of these Northern people, but we need to put our own beliefs to one side otherwise we end up talking about what we believe rather than what the myths say and the kind of place they have in the modern world. Look up the word archetype.
DeleteHi Siosi, I agree with what you have mentioned above. In my opinion old myths fit in the media. It is often we see mythical characters such as Hercules/Thor and so on. In our case we have "Beowulf" a poem which was turned interested in an actual life movie in 1999 and then over again turned into an lively one 2007. So for that object I think old myths belong in the media in the modern world.
DeleteYes, We seem to have an enduring love affair with super-heroes, those with extraordinary powers. That fascination carries on today in TV shows like Flash and Arrow. Perhaps we all want to become more than we are. Someone commented that the more we strive to become more than human, the less human we actually become. (eg: Nazis)
DeleteHi Mike,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your comments and I take your words that I should have focused on the myths say but not on my own belief as it will be totally different to others thoughts and believes . I have looked up the word, "archetype and it defines as the original pattern or model from which all things of the same kind are copied or on which they are based; prototype. in other words,An original which has been imitated; a prototype.
Again a story means to be upright is to be good to tell.
Good. These super heroes are thought be be archetypes embedded deep in the human mind, and which may have different manifestations or appearances in different times and cultures.
Delete4.How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
ReplyDeleteTolkien used many themes from Old Norse and Old English texts. A few notable examples are the sword Gram in Volsunga being shattered and reforged (Ch12) much like Anduril in Lord of the Ring (Ch3). Voluspa also has parallels to Tolkein's world, such as a theme of an important tree (Yggdrasil/The White Tree of Gondor) There are also themes of a golden age that passed with the destruction of a land: Numenor(LOTR B2:Ch2) and Voluspa (20)
Tolkein used many of the same names for his dwarves from Voluspa (12). There are also passing themes of mortality and immortality in all of these works.
6.What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
Old myths have a place in the modern world because they can still provide us with examples of how we should behave and explain why things are the way they are. Every culture has myths, and in every culture they attempt to answer existential questions about who one is and why they are there, as well as explaining how they should behave. They provide us with a connection with our past. The Norse and Old English myths may not be particularly relevant to modern life, but Tolkein did a wonderful job of transforming them into relevant tales for the modern world. Modern audiences may not receive much of value from stories encouraging them to wrestle monsters with their bare hands, but they can identify with the story of somebody being suddenly torn from a peaceful existence and being faced with the horrors of the unknown In most of the modern world, there are not metaphorical Grendels, wyrms, and bands of murderers out for blood around every, but there are certainly events that come out of nowhere , destroy the peaceful existence that one used to have, and force them to face the unknown, such as being the victim of a crime or accident, arrest, or being sent off to war.
Hi Candice just a little response for your question 4 because I came through your post and it was inspire me to read some text related to the question and how fascinate of all of it, however, I found out about something about Tolkien.
DeleteHi Candice, I was so interested reading your post and find out that Tolkien was an expert on Old norse and Old English. It is mutual for Tolkien to practise many Old English or Old norse words and names for people and things in his works (David, 2002) Tolkien knew that using Old English has power to make his works more literary and sentimental.
For instance, Tolkien used an Old English name “Saruman” in “Lord of the rings”. At this time, Searu means ‘cunning’ or ‘treacherous’. That is, if readers read the book, they can guess what will happen or what the name means. It makes the understanding of reader’s more distinct (Hugo, 2012).
Similarly, Conferring to Christopher (2012) Smaug is the dragon, protecting a hoard of treasure, whose defeat is the quest of the Hobbit, Bilbo Baggins, and his 13 dwarf companions. His name is the past tense of an Old Norse word smjúga meaning “to creep through an opening”. Gollum’s real name had been Smeagol (a word that might have existed in Old English), meaning “apt to creep into a hole” (para. 8).
Additionally, Tolkien displayed the Old Norse in “Hobbit”. He gives us many Norse such as Dwarves, Gandalf, Durinn, Dvalinn, and Beorn etc. In here we can see many see similar rhyme of name of the characters like Gloin, Groin, and Oin. It means a deep relationship in their natural forms. (Vesa, 2012)
.
Excellent answer, Candice. Note my comment above. Well commented Fakaanaua. Yes, Tolkien was a linguist my training and never lost his fascination with language and languages.
Delete7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf?
ReplyDeleteBeowulf is a champion who seems in the epic in UK. But this epic’s writer is unknown. Beowulf is just supposed that it transcribed by early 11th century from the late 8th century by Anglo-sense. Additionally, creating the epic into a film most likely advances a condensed, shortened version of the original poem. This is problematic because those who have not read or understood the text rely on the film to provide an outline when in its place it may be an abstract version of the original. In the film Beowulf and Grendel problematises the hero-myth Beowulf as of the inspired liberties that are often taken in interpreting archaic literature. The inventive story of Beowulf is particularly likely to misrepresentation as of the various translations (in language) it has withstood. It is written in Old English, by dividing it into two main parts. The combat of Grendel is the first part which is a half-man-half-beast monster and Beowulf who is a brave person. Fight amongst the dragon and Beowulf is the second part when Beowulf came back to his nation.
However, the film may spread the poem, the conservation of the story is in the hands of the media. This produces to creative liberties that are possible to construct an altered version of the story, a version that many people will view it depend on to understand the myth. For instance, in the movie Beowulf and Grendel, the plot differs from the original as there are three characters involved in the film that were not part of the old-style poem (Grendel's father, Grendel's son, and Selma the witch). Besides, the character Selma creates a love attention for Beowulf, which idealises the epic as well as changes the vital focus of the original story's theme. This demonstrates the connection between the original piece of literature and its film, where the myth is a mere inspiration to the popular films and might not truthfully mirror the real myth.
References
1.Wikipedia(n.d.). Beowulf. Retrieved March 23, 2015, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf
2. Ruiz(n.d.). Portafoliodediacronia - Differences between the poem of Beowulf and the movie Beowulf. Retrieved March 23, 2015, from http://portafoliodediacronia.wikispaces.com/B.+Differences+between+the+poem+of+Beowulf+and+the+movie+Beowulf
Yes, another relevant comment. They can't make a film without a love interest!
ReplyDeleteWhen we describe mythology, we talk about a collection or group of myths especially one which refers to a particular religion or cultural tradition. Myths such as Greek mythology, legends or traditional stories are examples of mythology.
ReplyDeleteVoluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf are all texts which also fall under the category of mythology. Voluspa’s genre is a mythological Old Norse poem.
An example of Voluspa being a mythological genre are shown as references to Gods from the poem. “Hear my words, you holy gods, great men and humble sons of Heimdall; by Odins will”.
In Voluspa, we read of the Volva telling Odin (chief of the gods, of the creation of the world, origin of the dwarfs and of the first man and woman about what is to come, the fate of the Gods in the final battle). “Then the Holy gods met to give judgement, the holy gods took counsel together” (referencing to god- mythology term)
Voluspa tells the story of the world and its coming to an end, relating to the audience by a Volva addressing Odin. Saga, Beowulf and Volsunga are all in the same category also as each piece relates not only to ancient Nordic but also speaks about voyages and battles. It tells stories of oral traditions and all written in the Old Norse language.
In Beowulf: a new translation, we read of a hero. An old English poem (the longest poem in Old English) who comes to the aid of Hygelac (the king). “The wide kingdom reverted to Beowulf. He ruled it well for fifty winters”
References:
Paul. (2012, May 2). Myth and the Modern World.
Retrieved from http://twooldliberals.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/myth-and-the-modern-world/
Wikipedia(n.d.). Beowulf. Retrieved March 23, 2015, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf
Terry, P. (trans). (1990, 0966). Poems of the Elder Edda. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press
The question to this comment is:
Delete1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDeleteI think there is still evidence that we see how myths still continue to have an influence in our popular culture today. I remember in primary school reading about a young boy who slays a dragon, or watching a movie about a prince rescuing his princess from a dragon in a castle. Its similar connections such as these where I think inspire the authors and screen writers to draw inspiration from.
Hercules which is written in a form of a play and book for older and younger audience is based on a good looking (demi-god) who does his best to protect and look after his people from the evil villains. Again, inspiration such as these from old mythology allow the writers and actors in our time to re-create and re-live these myths brought back from the past.
Pop culture in our time now draw inspiration from many old mythology tales and stories which enable them to produce their own type of story or movie that depict the original (with a twist of modern culture).